There are solely a handful of Indian movies that defy the standard description and invite the audiences right into a world that may solely be understood by way of expertise slightly than clarification. One such movie is Payal Kapadia’s ‘ALL WE IMAGINE AS LIGHT’. Set towards the bustling but remoted backdrop of Mumbai, this cinematic triumph transcends narrative boundaries to create one thing profound and deeply private. By means of a surprising mixture of magical realism and grounded storytelling, it delves into themes of affection, loss, identification, and self-discovery. Aside from the storytelling, the cinematography by Ranabir Das, elevates the movie to an ethereal realm, capturing the stark contrasts of Mumbai’s city panorama with poetic finesse. The digicam lingers on town’s chaos and quiet, utilizing mild and shadow to reflect the internal worlds of its characters.
The inventive brilliance has not gone unnoticed, as ‘ALL WE IMAGINE AS LIGHT‘ has garnered widespread acclaim and a plethora of prestigious accolades on the worldwide competition circuit. For Payal and Ranabir, this roaring success is one thing that they by no means imagined, as their focus was solely on telling an genuine and deeply private story. After successful the Grand Prix accolade at this 12 months’s Cannes, the movie has solidified its place as a landmark in modern Indian cinema. It’s so good to see an Indian filmmaker garnering a lot success on the world degree, and changing into the first-ever feminine filmmaker from India to obtain a Finest Director nod on the Golden Globes. Lately, I had the fortune of speaking to Payal Kapadia, and DOP Ranabir Das, about their movie and the way they created such an impressive world the place moments of magical realism are dropped at life by surreal imagery.
Payal Kapadia on the Cannes Movie Competition (Picture Credit score: Getty Photos)
Right here’s the FULL INTERVIEW:
Aayush Sharma: Congratulations on the unimaginable win for ‘All We Think about As Gentle’. The previous few days should have been a whirlwind of feelings, from press engagements to screenings, culminating on this well-deserved triumph. How does it really feel to see all of the laborious work and fervour behind this movie being celebrated on such a grand stage? Has the magnitude of this achievement actually sunk in but?
Payal Kapadia: It’s been actually greater than we ever imagined for the movie. After we have been in Cannes, it already felt so massive. Each time one thing else occurs, we really feel like we wish to pinch ourselves. We labored on the movie for a very long time—particularly the 2 of us (Payal and Ranabir Das), since we write collectively as effectively. It’s been a undertaking we’ve labored on, on and off, for nearly six or seven years, and intensely over the previous 4 years. Typically, you are feeling prefer it’s over, and that itself feels so bizarre.
Aayush Sharma: The town of Mumbai performs such a central position in your movie. How did you strategy portraying Mumbai not simply as a setting however as a personality in itself, with its heartbeat and tales?
Payal Kapadia: I believe it’s as a result of, you realize if you make a movie—or at the very least once I make a movie—it’s sort of like a response to your environment. What forces itself into the movie is one thing that issues you or one thing you see on a regular basis, and also you get bothered by it. The contradictions of Mumbai, I believe, are very a lot a part of our every day life. For the previous 5 years, we’ve got been dwelling right here collectively. On one aspect, you see all people shifting right here—particularly within the movie business—as a result of all our pals from FTII additionally moved to Mumbai. In some senses, it’s sort of liberating as a result of you’ve gotten your personal sort of freedom right here to do issues. But it surely’s additionally a metropolis that may be very merciless. It’s a really costly metropolis, not very snug to navigate or journey in on daily basis, contemplating the period of time it takes. There may be additionally fixed gentrification going down. It’s a metropolis that’s all the time in a state of change as a result of the individuals who include plenty of problem can be very simply made to go away. We particularly noticed that throughout the COVID time. It’s additionally a metropolis that’s geographically altering as a result of it’s like an island metropolis that turned hooked up to the peninsula. And now, land reclamation can also be going down. So even bodily, town is like an amoeba. I used to be very desirous about all these items in regards to the metropolis, and a few of it makes us very offended additionally.
Ranabir Das: Generally, Mumbai is a metropolis the place so many movies are shot. However in only a few movies will we really see town. We simply wished to doc some senses of now—a time now—that may stay someplace.
Payal Kapadia: As a result of I believe that Mohammad Ali Street, that space, may even sooner or later get gentrified and be shot. And I really feel like we wished to additionally bear in mind totally different, totally different locations.
Aayush Sharma: The shift from the bustling city panorama of Mumbai to the serene coastal village marks a big tonal change. How did you conceptualize this transition, and what does it signify within the bigger context of the story?
Ranabir Das: Effectively, on some ranges, it’s very primary. Like, we simply wished a shift, a change in season. Yeah. Just a little little bit of time has passed by between the earlier occasions and what’s to comply with. In that sense, the biggest shift, I believe, is that the primary half could be very cloudy, and the second half could be very shiny solar. The colour palette additionally shifts within the course of. However we wished the second half to have a barely totally different feeling of time as effectively. We wished it to be only one lengthy day, this whole second half. So we wished to really feel the time just a little bit extra. We wished to be just a little nearer to the characters. Within the metropolis, we all the time included town just a little bit within the background or in some airplane. There’s all the time some presence of town creeping in. However over right here, we wished to be bodily nearer to the characters and be with them extra.
Payal Kapadia: The kind of this village, however our intention at the very least was to someplace keep away from taking a look at that an excessive amount of, okay, and being with the character. Yeah, like that’s why most—at the very least what we tried, I don’t know the way a lot of it got here by way of—however plenty of time, Riku would bleach out a few of the background when it was a really broad shot, for instance, as a result of the daylight wouldn’t sort of, you realize, simply keep on with that cliche of a fairly place. One thing that, you realize, that warmth—I don’t know if you’re from Delhi, however I suppose in Delhi additionally, in the summertime, that very prime solar is like, it’s not very nice. In order that feeling, we wished to sort of get. I believe, yeah, as a result of Mumbai appears so totally different, I believe that distinction has been a lot.
Kani Kusruti as Prabha and Divya Prabha as Any in ‘All We Think about As Gentle’ (Picture Credit score: Spirit Media)
Aayush Sharma: The movie opens with a documentary-style montage of road scenes and migrant voices. How did your background in documentary filmmaking form this strategy, and what was your intent behind mixing this model with fiction?
Payal Kapadia: You already know, like, I believe each of us are very process-driven filmmakers. So plenty of time, we find yourself doing plenty of analysis and, you realize, not even simply analysis—after we go for location scouting, you sit, you chat with folks, you’ve gotten chai, you eat, or we simply meet folks for the sake of, you realize, understanding issues higher. Whereas doing that, we have been getting plenty of totally different tales from folks—folks have been telling us, and our pals have been additionally telling us. So we wished to maintain the essence of these conversations by some means within the movie, although we didn’t know the way. I believe it was the identical with our earlier movie too—like, plenty of the stuff that’s there comes out later due to interactions with actuality. You possibly can think about some issues, you write sure issues, you’ve gotten a script, and every little thing, after which actuality comes and says, ‘Hiya,’ which is good. I actually get pleasure from that, and I believe we actually get pleasure from that. So we wished to maintain a sense of these conversations and random interactions. We additionally felt like by some means it gave a sort of symphony of town, with all of the folks right here. It’s a metropolis made up of individuals from totally different elements of the state, and totally different elements of the nation, and also you hear so many languages in Mumbai. It’s a really numerous house. So we wished to have a jhalak of that within the movie.
Ranabir Das: Additionally, we felt that it was one thing that was treating it like there are such a lot of tales floating round, and we’re coming into considered one of them. Only one factor we’re delving into deeper, after which that fiction additionally turns into just a little bit extra actual after that.
Aayush Sharma: The movie is devoted to your grandmother and your good friend who’s a nurse. How did their lives and experiences encourage the story of All We Think about as Gentle, and what private connections formed your strategy to telling this story?
Payal Kapadia: For me, my grandmother’s story has been a nagging string for all my movies to date. Each movie has this copy in it. All my quick movies have it. Principally, when she was in her 90s, she began dropping her reminiscence. So, I informed her, simply to sort of preserve the thoughts shifting, ‘Why don’t you write a diary?’ So, she began writing the diary. And by some means, within the diary, this husband of hers used to maintain showing. Now, she was 97 or 96 or one thing like this. Her husband died when she was 50. So, all these years, she was single. However presently, it was he who was popping out, coming in her desires and coming nearly like an individual, like a ghost, and was annoying her. So, she was very irritated. I believe she didn’t get together with him very a lot. So, I used to be pondering loads about that, like this type of factor that plenty of ladies round me—like they’re unbiased, they’re dwelling alone, working jobs, financially unbiased—however these males don’t appear to go. So, I used to be pondering loads about that, and like, sort of, you realize, that our concepts in India, we’ve got to have a look at our feminism in a means, protecting these sorts of issues in thoughts. At the very least for me, that is my perspective. All people has their very own. So, like, it’s these lingering males who we don’t need them to outline us, however they’re there. Now, what to do? So, that’s sort of what this movie is about. Like, this Prabha additionally, you realize, sort of making an attempt to go away this chap who simply popped up out of nowhere. So, yeah, that’s it.
For the nurse, she was very open to telling me all in regards to the early…like, all these things about studying in regards to the placenta, how their coaching was. So, that’s what obtained me into the nursing career—it’s due to all this. She used to inform me about the way it was for them after they have been college students and, you realize, the sort of issues on a day-to-day foundation, the way it was. So, I obtained very…like, she was very open to maintain telling me. I’d WhatsApp her saying, ‘Is that this clinically right?’ and all that. Very beneficiant with that—consulting all the data and the nursing tales. Many nurses have helped on this, and we did so many interviews, however she was one of many first folks I spoke to.
Aayush Sharma: Riku, I wanted to grasp, and clarify to me like I’m a 10-year-old. For you, attending to know in regards to the characters, struggles, and every little thing else, play a big position in utilizing sure visible methods, like lighting and all.
Ranabir Das: Sure, completely. It’s not solely about what a personality is feeling or going by way of these days but additionally in regards to the bigger imaginative and prescient of how a director needs the story to be informed. So, with every undertaking I undertake, I make a aware effort to be as true and sincere to the essence of that undertaking as attainable. It’s about guaranteeing that the character’s journey, feelings, and experiences resonate with the general narrative and the director’s artistic imaginative and prescient.
Aayush Sharma: The vast majority of the movie is in Malayalam, reflecting the truth that many nurses in Mumbai come from Kerala. As somebody who didn’t develop up talking the language, how did you navigate the problem of authentically portraying this linguistic and cultural context? What steps did you are taking to make sure that the nuances of Malayalam-speaking characters have been captured with depth and accuracy?
Payal Kapadia: I’ve to say, it was powerful, and took further time to get this proper. However I had Robin Pleasure and Naseem, my dialogue writers, who’re each from Kerala and likewise filmmakers. I really met Robin at FTII, and I’ve all the time appreciated his writing and quick movies. I wished to work with him as a result of I felt we related effectively emotionally, politically, and when it comes to our social contexts. So, I introduced him on board nearly two years in the past, in 2022. He then started rewriting the dialogues based mostly on how we had mentioned the characters. For instance, we determined that Anu could be from Palakkad, so we adjusted her accent and even integrated her particular slang. We additionally labored on how the characters would talk on WhatsApp, utilizing that Gen Z model of texting. Robin and Naseem actually devoted an entire 12 months to rewriting and refining the dialogues.
After we labored with the actors, we’d re-examine the dialogues collectively. The actors would ship their traces, and we’d hearken to the recordings to listen to how they sounded. This course of was important as a result of, in any other case, how would I direct in a language I don’t totally perceive, proper? We did plenty of rehearsals to assist me get a way of what they have been saying and the way it felt. With Robin’s experience, he’d level out if one thing didn’t sound fairly proper, which was extremely useful. Having somebody like him by my aspect made the entire course of smoother and extra genuine.
Aayush Sharma: All We Think about as Gentle is a deeply political movie, but a lot of the dialogue round it focuses on its aesthetics or limits its politics to an Indian context, overlooking its common relevance. Have you ever observed this, and the way do you are feeling about such interpretations?
Ranabir Das: We’ve tried in our personal means, although I’m unsure how efficiently it comes by way of or to what extent we’ve been proper or not. However we’ve tried to incorporate some components. I believe that, normally, any movie you watch is political, whether or not the filmmakers supposed it to be or not. You possibly can learn into it, and also you’ll discover issues which can be, in some methods, political. In that sense, there are positively facets of this movie which can be extra immediately political, however every little thing else additionally turns into one thing to interpret and perceive. Finally, everybody can have their very own interpretation.
Payal Kapadia: Yeah, true. However I believe some issues are so deeply rooted for us, just like the context of the papers and the connection, or a few of the little issues we’ve stored within the movie that we haven’t even subtitled. I really feel like there’s all the time this stability between explaining issues and permitting folks to really feel them. And we’re all the time fighting this stability—how a lot to clarify or for which viewers. So, on the finish of the day, that is the stability we’ve discovered for this movie. We’ll see the way it goes with the following one. However yeah, many individuals don’t totally perceive our nation. There are such a lot of issues right here, so many contexts, so many layers. Some folks even ask me if we converse “Indian,” and I’m like, no! So, what can we do? Even throughout the nation, the humanities usually symbolize only one voice and one opinion. Interpretation will all the time be totally different. I believe even inside our nation, a movie about Delhi can be seen otherwise by somebody who’s by no means been there or lived there. All of these items are true, and considered one of my objectives was to keep away from falling into clichés about nursing, the characters, or anything. They’re simply folks. There’s nothing you may label as clichéd about their identification. That was one thing I assumed loads about, however once more, that’s the great thing about cinema. You create one thing, then you definitely see how folks react and be taught from it, understanding what you probably did and all the time striving to do higher, I suppose.
Divya Prabha and Hridhu Haroon in a nonetheless from ‘All We Imagined As Gentle’ (Picture Credit score: Spirit Media)
Aayush Sharma: You’re fairly lively on social media, particularly on Twitter. Lately, you talked in regards to the improper facet ratio in theatres. What occurred there?
Payal Kapadia: Don’t make me cry. please. (laughs) However since I posted it on Twitter, at the very least individuals are speaking about it. I’ve observed that individuals are going, and the courageous ones are stopping the projection. I don’t perceive that—so many movies have to be shot in 1.85:1 at the very least.
Aayush Sharma: Mr. Hansal Mehta, the director, mentioned on social media {that a} film like ‘All We Think about As Gentle’ is failing to get help from streaming platforms. Was that true? and what did you be taught from that course of?
Ranabir Das: In our case, there’s some curiosity from streaming platforms that producers are taking a look at.
Payal Kapadia: However the issue is that in our case, since we’re releasing in so many nations, we will’t do a global sale. This makes streaming platforms a bit hesitant, I suppose—it’s a difficulty for them as all of them need worldwide attain. And we actually wished a launch time. We wished the movie to be in cinemas for an extended period, in order that was one of many factors I put forth—what I may say on this matter. However the different factor you’re declaring, distribution is an actual drawback. This 12 months, there have been so many movies from India at Cannes. Administrators of Indian origin, my batchmate Maisa Malli’s movie was there in ACID. It’s a very nice movie, and I believe it was at MAMI as effectively. We’re getting consideration within the information and every little thing, however there have been so many movies there. There was Sister of Midnight, there was Santosh, and Women Will Be Women, which I believe has achieved fairly effectively however didn’t get a cinema launch. So I believe we should always discover a technique to watch our personal nation’s movies within the cinema, even when they’re small. Why can’t we get one slot a day for these movies? Why aren’t exhibitors keen to take that problem? Anyway, they’ve multiplexes, to allow them to present the large motion pictures, and in the event that they present one smaller movie as soon as a month, it could possibly be superb. The way in which she makes movies is unimaginable, so on her personal, and the movies are incredible. I believe so many individuals would get pleasure from watching them, like schoolchildren. They might do outings and take all the youngsters from some faculties to the cinema. The cinemas may provide discounted costs too.
Ranabir: I really feel that these sorts of interactive issues could possibly be a technique to preserve folks engaged from a younger age and encourage essential pondering. Cinema can try this as effectively. And concerning your preliminary query about OTT, it’s changing into an more and more tough market normally. When it first got here in, it appeared like there was scope for unbiased cinema. There was additionally some amount of cash that filmmakers and producers may entry.
Picture Credit score: Rediff
Aayush Sharma: Each the movies that you’re a a part of are principally unbiased movies. For All We Think about As Gentle, you noticed loads backing arising after the film received at Cannes. Then, Rana Daggubatti obtained concerned in it. As somebody who’s deeply concerned on this film, did you see any sort of distinction in how the film was taken to theatres or distributors as soon as an individual like Rana obtained into the method?
Ranabir Das: Sure, I imply, he additionally has a distribution firm, so in that sense, he is aware of the exhibitors, he understands the market. I don’t know if it’s merely due to his begin, however yeah, as a distributor, he positively has some quantity of expertise and data on this space.
Payal Kapadia: I believe it actually helped us as a result of he has, particularly within the south, plenty of connections. They arrive from a household of distribution, and he’s additionally placing weight behind the movie. See, we don’t have the finances for giant posters or to place it on a bus, and even to have it within the cinema. There weren’t any extra conventional strategies like that. So, speaking to the press and having him there to help was sort of our technique to attain out.
Aayush Sharma: You’ve beforehand highlighted the challenges of securing funding for unbiased movies in India. Might you share extra about your experiences navigating this panorama and the way it formed the journey of bringing ‘All We Think about as Gentle’ to life?
Ranabir Das: I imply, initially, it was a bit scary as a result of we didn’t really know if the movie would ever get made. However our producers gave us some quantity of confidence, and we confronted a number of rejections as effectively. Nonetheless, as we began getting extra funds and the script started creating additional, we began receiving more cash. With that, we felt extra assured, and we realized that it was a system that helped us.
Payal Kapadia: One factor we discovered all through this course of is what a producer actually is. At the very least within the West, a producer isn’t somebody who has their very own cash or an organization with funds, however slightly, they’re those who can form your undertaking in a means that means that you can safe funding from different sources. It’s actually a collaboration. They may learn the undertaking and, in the event that they consider in it, they received’t simply agree with you—they are going to belief their opinion and provide their help. It’s necessary to search out somebody whose judgment you belief and who additionally believes in you, and who will say, “Okay, let’s do that. No matter occurs, we’ll make it occur.” We acquired plenty of that sort of motivation, even from our producer right here in India. He did his finest to get the movie off the bottom, discovering the proper folks for us to work with, and we ended up with a incredible crew of collaborators. All of that’s what makes the movie what it’s—not only one individual, however the collective effort of many individuals coming collectively.
Aayush Sharma: I had the pleasure of interviewing Kani Kusruti, and she or he informed me that you just (Payal) had envisioned her as Anu. So, how did the change occur?
Payal Kapadia: Yeah, again then, once I was nonetheless a pupil, I wrote about two pages of an idea for the movie, a unfastened thought about two pals who have been nurses. However I hadn’t achieved a lot analysis at the moment. It was only a primary thought, and I wished to make a 20-minute movie about it. At the moment, I had seen her quick movie Recollections of a Machine, and I actually appreciated her efficiency in it, so we wished to forged her as Anu. Nonetheless, I made a decision to not pursue it for FTII as a result of I felt there was nonetheless loads I wanted to grasp earlier than making this movie. I didn’t really feel like I had the proper connection on the time, so I let it go. After that, I began researching, assembly extra folks, gathering tales, and ultimately realized it needed to be a characteristic movie. And that, in fact, takes time. So I’d work on it, then go away it, come again to it, and make one other movie in between. All through all this, I stored sending Kanni the script.
I assumed I may not be capable of do it at a youthful age. Each of us had gotten older, and we have been the identical age, so I puzzled, what may I do? However then she mentioned, “Let me strive for the older one.” Nonetheless, I believe I used to be so fixated on her being Anu that it was initially laborious for me to simply accept that she may play the older model. However she’s simply such a fantastic artist, a beautiful actor, and extremely hardworking. It’s superb. She is so inspiring, and I really feel so fortunate to have met her.
Ranabir Das: You already know, for Anu, we had seen Divya in ‘Declaration’. Yeah, yeah. And he or she was taking part in an older character in that movie, so we initially considered her as Prabha.
The forged and crew of ‘All We Think about As Gentle’ (Picture Credit score: Getty Photos)
Aayush Sharma: The movie makes use of magical realism and lyrical components within the second half. How do you see this mixing of realism and fantasy as a technique to discover the internal worlds of your characters?
Payal Kapadia: Effectively, I wished to go from this very day-in-the-life model of metropolis folks, utilizing broad pictures of a metropolis with a shaky digicam, to go deeper and deeper, till we reached such an in depth level that we may seize the feel of the pores and skin, the hair on the physique, and the grain of sand. We wished to strategy it as if we have been utilizing a microscope, the place we first present a large shot after which funnel right down to one thing as small because the grain of sand on a person’s physique. The transition from that vérité model to one thing like magical realism felt pure, changing into extra inner. I used to be pondering loads about how one can categorical need, as in our society, it’s not one thing you speak about. How do you say “I really like you” in English? How do you say it for those who haven’t mentioned it but? It’s tough. We will’t categorical these items simply. So I assumed, cinematically, how will she hear it, or what is going to she say? Cinema permits us to talk with out talking. I wished to discover a language in our personal technique to speak about sure issues, and this gave the impression to be the proper means, a magical one. I used to be pondering loads about how this had been achieved prior to now.
In Rajasthan, Gujarat, or Karnataka on the western coast, folks tales usually inform tales about longing and the lads who go away as retailers. There’s plenty of journey and many ladies’s tales about how they can’t discuss to their husbands. One well-known one is Duvida, the place the husband comes again as a ghost, and she or he falls in love with him, however ultimately, he will get caught. There are tales the place the person turns into a tree or a thief. Sangam poetry additionally makes use of nature to speak about longing. I used to be excited about all these items, in addition to a brief story by Márquez I learn the place a person washes up in a village. Whereas he’s handed out, the ladies begin saying issues like, ‘Oh, he’s so good-looking,’ or, ‘His household should have made massive doorways in the home as a result of he’s so tall,’ creating their very own tales. Their needs are projected onto the lifeless man. So I used to be on this thought of not with the ability to converse, and the way we begin projecting issues and discover a technique to launch that ache. In my head, all of it simply made sense.
Payal Kapadia’s ‘ALL WE IMAGINE AS LIGHT’ is taking part in worldwide.
There are solely a handful of Indian movies that defy the standard description and invite the audiences right into a world that may solely be understood by way of expertise slightly than clarification. One such movie is Payal Kapadia’s ‘ALL WE IMAGINE AS LIGHT’. Set towards the bustling but remoted backdrop of Mumbai, this cinematic triumph transcends narrative boundaries to create one thing profound and deeply private. By means of a surprising mixture of magical realism and grounded storytelling, it delves into themes of affection, loss, identification, and self-discovery. Aside from the storytelling, the cinematography by Ranabir Das, elevates the movie to an ethereal realm, capturing the stark contrasts of Mumbai’s city panorama with poetic finesse. The digicam lingers on town’s chaos and quiet, utilizing mild and shadow to reflect the internal worlds of its characters.
The inventive brilliance has not gone unnoticed, as ‘ALL WE IMAGINE AS LIGHT‘ has garnered widespread acclaim and a plethora of prestigious accolades on the worldwide competition circuit. For Payal and Ranabir, this roaring success is one thing that they by no means imagined, as their focus was solely on telling an genuine and deeply private story. After successful the Grand Prix accolade at this 12 months’s Cannes, the movie has solidified its place as a landmark in modern Indian cinema. It’s so good to see an Indian filmmaker garnering a lot success on the world degree, and changing into the first-ever feminine filmmaker from India to obtain a Finest Director nod on the Golden Globes. Lately, I had the fortune of speaking to Payal Kapadia, and DOP Ranabir Das, about their movie and the way they created such an impressive world the place moments of magical realism are dropped at life by surreal imagery.
Payal Kapadia on the Cannes Movie Competition (Picture Credit score: Getty Photos)
Right here’s the FULL INTERVIEW:
Aayush Sharma: Congratulations on the unimaginable win for ‘All We Think about As Gentle’. The previous few days should have been a whirlwind of feelings, from press engagements to screenings, culminating on this well-deserved triumph. How does it really feel to see all of the laborious work and fervour behind this movie being celebrated on such a grand stage? Has the magnitude of this achievement actually sunk in but?
Payal Kapadia: It’s been actually greater than we ever imagined for the movie. After we have been in Cannes, it already felt so massive. Each time one thing else occurs, we really feel like we wish to pinch ourselves. We labored on the movie for a very long time—particularly the 2 of us (Payal and Ranabir Das), since we write collectively as effectively. It’s been a undertaking we’ve labored on, on and off, for nearly six or seven years, and intensely over the previous 4 years. Typically, you are feeling prefer it’s over, and that itself feels so bizarre.
Aayush Sharma: The town of Mumbai performs such a central position in your movie. How did you strategy portraying Mumbai not simply as a setting however as a personality in itself, with its heartbeat and tales?
Payal Kapadia: I believe it’s as a result of, you realize if you make a movie—or at the very least once I make a movie—it’s sort of like a response to your environment. What forces itself into the movie is one thing that issues you or one thing you see on a regular basis, and also you get bothered by it. The contradictions of Mumbai, I believe, are very a lot a part of our every day life. For the previous 5 years, we’ve got been dwelling right here collectively. On one aspect, you see all people shifting right here—particularly within the movie business—as a result of all our pals from FTII additionally moved to Mumbai. In some senses, it’s sort of liberating as a result of you’ve gotten your personal sort of freedom right here to do issues. But it surely’s additionally a metropolis that may be very merciless. It’s a really costly metropolis, not very snug to navigate or journey in on daily basis, contemplating the period of time it takes. There may be additionally fixed gentrification going down. It’s a metropolis that’s all the time in a state of change as a result of the individuals who include plenty of problem can be very simply made to go away. We particularly noticed that throughout the COVID time. It’s additionally a metropolis that’s geographically altering as a result of it’s like an island metropolis that turned hooked up to the peninsula. And now, land reclamation can also be going down. So even bodily, town is like an amoeba. I used to be very desirous about all these items in regards to the metropolis, and a few of it makes us very offended additionally.
Ranabir Das: Generally, Mumbai is a metropolis the place so many movies are shot. However in only a few movies will we really see town. We simply wished to doc some senses of now—a time now—that may stay someplace.
Payal Kapadia: As a result of I believe that Mohammad Ali Street, that space, may even sooner or later get gentrified and be shot. And I really feel like we wished to additionally bear in mind totally different, totally different locations.
Aayush Sharma: The shift from the bustling city panorama of Mumbai to the serene coastal village marks a big tonal change. How did you conceptualize this transition, and what does it signify within the bigger context of the story?
Ranabir Das: Effectively, on some ranges, it’s very primary. Like, we simply wished a shift, a change in season. Yeah. Just a little little bit of time has passed by between the earlier occasions and what’s to comply with. In that sense, the biggest shift, I believe, is that the primary half could be very cloudy, and the second half could be very shiny solar. The colour palette additionally shifts within the course of. However we wished the second half to have a barely totally different feeling of time as effectively. We wished it to be only one lengthy day, this whole second half. So we wished to really feel the time just a little bit extra. We wished to be just a little nearer to the characters. Within the metropolis, we all the time included town just a little bit within the background or in some airplane. There’s all the time some presence of town creeping in. However over right here, we wished to be bodily nearer to the characters and be with them extra.
Payal Kapadia: The kind of this village, however our intention at the very least was to someplace keep away from taking a look at that an excessive amount of, okay, and being with the character. Yeah, like that’s why most—at the very least what we tried, I don’t know the way a lot of it got here by way of—however plenty of time, Riku would bleach out a few of the background when it was a really broad shot, for instance, as a result of the daylight wouldn’t sort of, you realize, simply keep on with that cliche of a fairly place. One thing that, you realize, that warmth—I don’t know if you’re from Delhi, however I suppose in Delhi additionally, in the summertime, that very prime solar is like, it’s not very nice. In order that feeling, we wished to sort of get. I believe, yeah, as a result of Mumbai appears so totally different, I believe that distinction has been a lot.
Kani Kusruti as Prabha and Divya Prabha as Any in ‘All We Think about As Gentle’ (Picture Credit score: Spirit Media)
Aayush Sharma: The movie opens with a documentary-style montage of road scenes and migrant voices. How did your background in documentary filmmaking form this strategy, and what was your intent behind mixing this model with fiction?
Payal Kapadia: You already know, like, I believe each of us are very process-driven filmmakers. So plenty of time, we find yourself doing plenty of analysis and, you realize, not even simply analysis—after we go for location scouting, you sit, you chat with folks, you’ve gotten chai, you eat, or we simply meet folks for the sake of, you realize, understanding issues higher. Whereas doing that, we have been getting plenty of totally different tales from folks—folks have been telling us, and our pals have been additionally telling us. So we wished to maintain the essence of these conversations by some means within the movie, although we didn’t know the way. I believe it was the identical with our earlier movie too—like, plenty of the stuff that’s there comes out later due to interactions with actuality. You possibly can think about some issues, you write sure issues, you’ve gotten a script, and every little thing, after which actuality comes and says, ‘Hiya,’ which is good. I actually get pleasure from that, and I believe we actually get pleasure from that. So we wished to maintain a sense of these conversations and random interactions. We additionally felt like by some means it gave a sort of symphony of town, with all of the folks right here. It’s a metropolis made up of individuals from totally different elements of the state, and totally different elements of the nation, and also you hear so many languages in Mumbai. It’s a really numerous house. So we wished to have a jhalak of that within the movie.
Ranabir Das: Additionally, we felt that it was one thing that was treating it like there are such a lot of tales floating round, and we’re coming into considered one of them. Only one factor we’re delving into deeper, after which that fiction additionally turns into just a little bit extra actual after that.
Aayush Sharma: The movie is devoted to your grandmother and your good friend who’s a nurse. How did their lives and experiences encourage the story of All We Think about as Gentle, and what private connections formed your strategy to telling this story?
Payal Kapadia: For me, my grandmother’s story has been a nagging string for all my movies to date. Each movie has this copy in it. All my quick movies have it. Principally, when she was in her 90s, she began dropping her reminiscence. So, I informed her, simply to sort of preserve the thoughts shifting, ‘Why don’t you write a diary?’ So, she began writing the diary. And by some means, within the diary, this husband of hers used to maintain showing. Now, she was 97 or 96 or one thing like this. Her husband died when she was 50. So, all these years, she was single. However presently, it was he who was popping out, coming in her desires and coming nearly like an individual, like a ghost, and was annoying her. So, she was very irritated. I believe she didn’t get together with him very a lot. So, I used to be pondering loads about that, like this type of factor that plenty of ladies round me—like they’re unbiased, they’re dwelling alone, working jobs, financially unbiased—however these males don’t appear to go. So, I used to be pondering loads about that, and like, sort of, you realize, that our concepts in India, we’ve got to have a look at our feminism in a means, protecting these sorts of issues in thoughts. At the very least for me, that is my perspective. All people has their very own. So, like, it’s these lingering males who we don’t need them to outline us, however they’re there. Now, what to do? So, that’s sort of what this movie is about. Like, this Prabha additionally, you realize, sort of making an attempt to go away this chap who simply popped up out of nowhere. So, yeah, that’s it.
For the nurse, she was very open to telling me all in regards to the early…like, all these things about studying in regards to the placenta, how their coaching was. So, that’s what obtained me into the nursing career—it’s due to all this. She used to inform me about the way it was for them after they have been college students and, you realize, the sort of issues on a day-to-day foundation, the way it was. So, I obtained very…like, she was very open to maintain telling me. I’d WhatsApp her saying, ‘Is that this clinically right?’ and all that. Very beneficiant with that—consulting all the data and the nursing tales. Many nurses have helped on this, and we did so many interviews, however she was one of many first folks I spoke to.
Aayush Sharma: Riku, I wanted to grasp, and clarify to me like I’m a 10-year-old. For you, attending to know in regards to the characters, struggles, and every little thing else, play a big position in utilizing sure visible methods, like lighting and all.
Ranabir Das: Sure, completely. It’s not solely about what a personality is feeling or going by way of these days but additionally in regards to the bigger imaginative and prescient of how a director needs the story to be informed. So, with every undertaking I undertake, I make a aware effort to be as true and sincere to the essence of that undertaking as attainable. It’s about guaranteeing that the character’s journey, feelings, and experiences resonate with the general narrative and the director’s artistic imaginative and prescient.
Aayush Sharma: The vast majority of the movie is in Malayalam, reflecting the truth that many nurses in Mumbai come from Kerala. As somebody who didn’t develop up talking the language, how did you navigate the problem of authentically portraying this linguistic and cultural context? What steps did you are taking to make sure that the nuances of Malayalam-speaking characters have been captured with depth and accuracy?
Payal Kapadia: I’ve to say, it was powerful, and took further time to get this proper. However I had Robin Pleasure and Naseem, my dialogue writers, who’re each from Kerala and likewise filmmakers. I really met Robin at FTII, and I’ve all the time appreciated his writing and quick movies. I wished to work with him as a result of I felt we related effectively emotionally, politically, and when it comes to our social contexts. So, I introduced him on board nearly two years in the past, in 2022. He then started rewriting the dialogues based mostly on how we had mentioned the characters. For instance, we determined that Anu could be from Palakkad, so we adjusted her accent and even integrated her particular slang. We additionally labored on how the characters would talk on WhatsApp, utilizing that Gen Z model of texting. Robin and Naseem actually devoted an entire 12 months to rewriting and refining the dialogues.
After we labored with the actors, we’d re-examine the dialogues collectively. The actors would ship their traces, and we’d hearken to the recordings to listen to how they sounded. This course of was important as a result of, in any other case, how would I direct in a language I don’t totally perceive, proper? We did plenty of rehearsals to assist me get a way of what they have been saying and the way it felt. With Robin’s experience, he’d level out if one thing didn’t sound fairly proper, which was extremely useful. Having somebody like him by my aspect made the entire course of smoother and extra genuine.
Aayush Sharma: All We Think about as Gentle is a deeply political movie, but a lot of the dialogue round it focuses on its aesthetics or limits its politics to an Indian context, overlooking its common relevance. Have you ever observed this, and the way do you are feeling about such interpretations?
Ranabir Das: We’ve tried in our personal means, although I’m unsure how efficiently it comes by way of or to what extent we’ve been proper or not. However we’ve tried to incorporate some components. I believe that, normally, any movie you watch is political, whether or not the filmmakers supposed it to be or not. You possibly can learn into it, and also you’ll discover issues which can be, in some methods, political. In that sense, there are positively facets of this movie which can be extra immediately political, however every little thing else additionally turns into one thing to interpret and perceive. Finally, everybody can have their very own interpretation.
Payal Kapadia: Yeah, true. However I believe some issues are so deeply rooted for us, just like the context of the papers and the connection, or a few of the little issues we’ve stored within the movie that we haven’t even subtitled. I really feel like there’s all the time this stability between explaining issues and permitting folks to really feel them. And we’re all the time fighting this stability—how a lot to clarify or for which viewers. So, on the finish of the day, that is the stability we’ve discovered for this movie. We’ll see the way it goes with the following one. However yeah, many individuals don’t totally perceive our nation. There are such a lot of issues right here, so many contexts, so many layers. Some folks even ask me if we converse “Indian,” and I’m like, no! So, what can we do? Even throughout the nation, the humanities usually symbolize only one voice and one opinion. Interpretation will all the time be totally different. I believe even inside our nation, a movie about Delhi can be seen otherwise by somebody who’s by no means been there or lived there. All of these items are true, and considered one of my objectives was to keep away from falling into clichés about nursing, the characters, or anything. They’re simply folks. There’s nothing you may label as clichéd about their identification. That was one thing I assumed loads about, however once more, that’s the great thing about cinema. You create one thing, then you definitely see how folks react and be taught from it, understanding what you probably did and all the time striving to do higher, I suppose.
Divya Prabha and Hridhu Haroon in a nonetheless from ‘All We Imagined As Gentle’ (Picture Credit score: Spirit Media)
Aayush Sharma: You’re fairly lively on social media, particularly on Twitter. Lately, you talked in regards to the improper facet ratio in theatres. What occurred there?
Payal Kapadia: Don’t make me cry. please. (laughs) However since I posted it on Twitter, at the very least individuals are speaking about it. I’ve observed that individuals are going, and the courageous ones are stopping the projection. I don’t perceive that—so many movies have to be shot in 1.85:1 at the very least.
Aayush Sharma: Mr. Hansal Mehta, the director, mentioned on social media {that a} film like ‘All We Think about As Gentle’ is failing to get help from streaming platforms. Was that true? and what did you be taught from that course of?
Ranabir Das: In our case, there’s some curiosity from streaming platforms that producers are taking a look at.
Payal Kapadia: However the issue is that in our case, since we’re releasing in so many nations, we will’t do a global sale. This makes streaming platforms a bit hesitant, I suppose—it’s a difficulty for them as all of them need worldwide attain. And we actually wished a launch time. We wished the movie to be in cinemas for an extended period, in order that was one of many factors I put forth—what I may say on this matter. However the different factor you’re declaring, distribution is an actual drawback. This 12 months, there have been so many movies from India at Cannes. Administrators of Indian origin, my batchmate Maisa Malli’s movie was there in ACID. It’s a very nice movie, and I believe it was at MAMI as effectively. We’re getting consideration within the information and every little thing, however there have been so many movies there. There was Sister of Midnight, there was Santosh, and Women Will Be Women, which I believe has achieved fairly effectively however didn’t get a cinema launch. So I believe we should always discover a technique to watch our personal nation’s movies within the cinema, even when they’re small. Why can’t we get one slot a day for these movies? Why aren’t exhibitors keen to take that problem? Anyway, they’ve multiplexes, to allow them to present the large motion pictures, and in the event that they present one smaller movie as soon as a month, it could possibly be superb. The way in which she makes movies is unimaginable, so on her personal, and the movies are incredible. I believe so many individuals would get pleasure from watching them, like schoolchildren. They might do outings and take all the youngsters from some faculties to the cinema. The cinemas may provide discounted costs too.
Ranabir: I really feel that these sorts of interactive issues could possibly be a technique to preserve folks engaged from a younger age and encourage essential pondering. Cinema can try this as effectively. And concerning your preliminary query about OTT, it’s changing into an more and more tough market normally. When it first got here in, it appeared like there was scope for unbiased cinema. There was additionally some amount of cash that filmmakers and producers may entry.
Picture Credit score: Rediff
Aayush Sharma: Each the movies that you’re a a part of are principally unbiased movies. For All We Think about As Gentle, you noticed loads backing arising after the film received at Cannes. Then, Rana Daggubatti obtained concerned in it. As somebody who’s deeply concerned on this film, did you see any sort of distinction in how the film was taken to theatres or distributors as soon as an individual like Rana obtained into the method?
Ranabir Das: Sure, I imply, he additionally has a distribution firm, so in that sense, he is aware of the exhibitors, he understands the market. I don’t know if it’s merely due to his begin, however yeah, as a distributor, he positively has some quantity of expertise and data on this space.
Payal Kapadia: I believe it actually helped us as a result of he has, particularly within the south, plenty of connections. They arrive from a household of distribution, and he’s additionally placing weight behind the movie. See, we don’t have the finances for giant posters or to place it on a bus, and even to have it within the cinema. There weren’t any extra conventional strategies like that. So, speaking to the press and having him there to help was sort of our technique to attain out.
Aayush Sharma: You’ve beforehand highlighted the challenges of securing funding for unbiased movies in India. Might you share extra about your experiences navigating this panorama and the way it formed the journey of bringing ‘All We Think about as Gentle’ to life?
Ranabir Das: I imply, initially, it was a bit scary as a result of we didn’t really know if the movie would ever get made. However our producers gave us some quantity of confidence, and we confronted a number of rejections as effectively. Nonetheless, as we began getting extra funds and the script started creating additional, we began receiving more cash. With that, we felt extra assured, and we realized that it was a system that helped us.
Payal Kapadia: One factor we discovered all through this course of is what a producer actually is. At the very least within the West, a producer isn’t somebody who has their very own cash or an organization with funds, however slightly, they’re those who can form your undertaking in a means that means that you can safe funding from different sources. It’s actually a collaboration. They may learn the undertaking and, in the event that they consider in it, they received’t simply agree with you—they are going to belief their opinion and provide their help. It’s necessary to search out somebody whose judgment you belief and who additionally believes in you, and who will say, “Okay, let’s do that. No matter occurs, we’ll make it occur.” We acquired plenty of that sort of motivation, even from our producer right here in India. He did his finest to get the movie off the bottom, discovering the proper folks for us to work with, and we ended up with a incredible crew of collaborators. All of that’s what makes the movie what it’s—not only one individual, however the collective effort of many individuals coming collectively.
Aayush Sharma: I had the pleasure of interviewing Kani Kusruti, and she or he informed me that you just (Payal) had envisioned her as Anu. So, how did the change occur?
Payal Kapadia: Yeah, again then, once I was nonetheless a pupil, I wrote about two pages of an idea for the movie, a unfastened thought about two pals who have been nurses. However I hadn’t achieved a lot analysis at the moment. It was only a primary thought, and I wished to make a 20-minute movie about it. At the moment, I had seen her quick movie Recollections of a Machine, and I actually appreciated her efficiency in it, so we wished to forged her as Anu. Nonetheless, I made a decision to not pursue it for FTII as a result of I felt there was nonetheless loads I wanted to grasp earlier than making this movie. I didn’t really feel like I had the proper connection on the time, so I let it go. After that, I began researching, assembly extra folks, gathering tales, and ultimately realized it needed to be a characteristic movie. And that, in fact, takes time. So I’d work on it, then go away it, come again to it, and make one other movie in between. All through all this, I stored sending Kanni the script.
I assumed I may not be capable of do it at a youthful age. Each of us had gotten older, and we have been the identical age, so I puzzled, what may I do? However then she mentioned, “Let me strive for the older one.” Nonetheless, I believe I used to be so fixated on her being Anu that it was initially laborious for me to simply accept that she may play the older model. However she’s simply such a fantastic artist, a beautiful actor, and extremely hardworking. It’s superb. She is so inspiring, and I really feel so fortunate to have met her.
Ranabir Das: You already know, for Anu, we had seen Divya in ‘Declaration’. Yeah, yeah. And he or she was taking part in an older character in that movie, so we initially considered her as Prabha.
The forged and crew of ‘All We Think about As Gentle’ (Picture Credit score: Getty Photos)
Aayush Sharma: The movie makes use of magical realism and lyrical components within the second half. How do you see this mixing of realism and fantasy as a technique to discover the internal worlds of your characters?
Payal Kapadia: Effectively, I wished to go from this very day-in-the-life model of metropolis folks, utilizing broad pictures of a metropolis with a shaky digicam, to go deeper and deeper, till we reached such an in depth level that we may seize the feel of the pores and skin, the hair on the physique, and the grain of sand. We wished to strategy it as if we have been utilizing a microscope, the place we first present a large shot after which funnel right down to one thing as small because the grain of sand on a person’s physique. The transition from that vérité model to one thing like magical realism felt pure, changing into extra inner. I used to be pondering loads about how one can categorical need, as in our society, it’s not one thing you speak about. How do you say “I really like you” in English? How do you say it for those who haven’t mentioned it but? It’s tough. We will’t categorical these items simply. So I assumed, cinematically, how will she hear it, or what is going to she say? Cinema permits us to talk with out talking. I wished to discover a language in our personal technique to speak about sure issues, and this gave the impression to be the proper means, a magical one. I used to be pondering loads about how this had been achieved prior to now.
In Rajasthan, Gujarat, or Karnataka on the western coast, folks tales usually inform tales about longing and the lads who go away as retailers. There’s plenty of journey and many ladies’s tales about how they can’t discuss to their husbands. One well-known one is Duvida, the place the husband comes again as a ghost, and she or he falls in love with him, however ultimately, he will get caught. There are tales the place the person turns into a tree or a thief. Sangam poetry additionally makes use of nature to speak about longing. I used to be excited about all these items, in addition to a brief story by Márquez I learn the place a person washes up in a village. Whereas he’s handed out, the ladies begin saying issues like, ‘Oh, he’s so good-looking,’ or, ‘His household should have made massive doorways in the home as a result of he’s so tall,’ creating their very own tales. Their needs are projected onto the lifeless man. So I used to be on this thought of not with the ability to converse, and the way we begin projecting issues and discover a technique to launch that ache. In my head, all of it simply made sense.
Payal Kapadia’s ‘ALL WE IMAGINE AS LIGHT’ is taking part in worldwide.
