I’ve no relationship with Trump, Brazil’s President Lula tells BBC

Brazil’s President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva has advised the BBC in an unique interview that he has “no relationship” with US President Donald Trump.

Lula has continuously criticised Trump, however that is the clearest sign but that he thinks communication between him and his US counterpart is now damaged.

Regardless that the US has a commerce surplus with Brazil, Donald Trump imposed 50% tariffs on Brazilian items in July, citing the trial on coup costs of Brazil’s right-wing former president Jair Bolsonaro as a set off.

Lula described the tariffs as “eminently political” and mentioned US customers could be going through larger costs for Brazilian items because of this.

The tariffs imposed by Trump have hit Brazilian exports to the US, like espresso and beef, which Lula mentioned would grow to be dearer: “The American individuals can pay for the errors President Trump is incurring in his relationship with Brazil.”

The 2 leaders have by no means spoken immediately to one another. When pushed on why he had not simply tried to select up the telephone or kind a relationship, President Lula mentioned: “I by no means tried that decision as a result of he by no means wished to have a dialog.”

Trump has beforehand mentioned that Lula can “name him anytime.” However Lula insisted that members of the Trump Administration “don’t need to speak”.

He advised the BBC that he had discovered in regards to the US tariffs from Brazilian newspapers.

Referring to Trump, he mentioned that the US president “did not talk in a civilised method. He simply printed them [the tariffs] on his portal – on social media.”

When requested how he would describe his relationship together with his US counterpart he merely mentioned: “There is not any relationship.”

Lula mentioned that his poor relations with the US chief had been the exception, itemizing how he had constructed relationships with former US presidents, UK prime ministers, the EU, China, Ukraine, Venezuela and “all of the international locations on the earth”.

The Brazilian president attended the World Warfare Two anniversary celebrations in Russia this yr and has not minimize ties with President Putin. Requested who he had a greater relationship with – Trump or Putin – he defended his ties to the latter, saying that they had shaped them after they had each been presidents “in earlier instances”.

“I haven’t got a relationship with Trump as a result of when Trump was elected the primary time, I wasn’t president. His relationship is with Bolsonaro, not Brazil,” Lula responded.

He additionally mentioned that if he handed Trump at subsequent week’s United Nations Basic meeting he would “greet him as a result of I’m a civilised citizen”, however added that Trump could also be “president of the US, [but] he isn’t emperor of the world!”.

The BBC approached the White Home for touch upon Lula’s criticism of Trump however had not but obtained a response on the time of publishing.

He additionally spoke about his predecessor in workplace, Jair Bolsonaro, who was convicted final week.

A 4-1 majority of justices on Brazil’s Supreme Court docket discovered the ex-president responsible of plotting a coup after dropping the election to Lula and sentenced him to 27 years in jail.

Lula advised the BBC that Bolsonaro and his co-conspirators had “damage the nation, tried a coup, and plotted my loss of life”.

Referring to the appeals Bolsonaro’s legal professionals mentioned they’d lodge, Lula mentioned that he hoped that Bolsonaro would proceed “to current his defence” however that “for now he’s responsible”.

He additionally criticised Trump for “inventing untruths” by claiming Bolsonaro was being persecuted and denouncing what the US chief mentioned was a scarcity of democracy in Brazil.

Lula additionally advised the BBC that if the 6 January Capitol riots had occurred in Brazil relatively than within the US, Trump would have been placed on trial.

Within the wide-ranging BBC interview, he additionally advocated for reform of the United Nations.

He criticised the truth that 5 international locations – the everlasting members of the UN Safety Council – have the ability to veto choices and argued that this tilted the stability in favour of those that received World Warfare Two, excluding nations representing billions of individuals like Brazil, Germany, India, Japan, in addition to African international locations.

The consequence, he mentioned, was that the UN did not “have the energy to resolve conflicts” and the 5 everlasting members made “unilateral” choices about going to warfare.

He defended his continued alliances with Russia and China – two nations the place unfair elections and human rights abuses have been documented – whereas calling for a extra “democratic” UN.

Pressed on Brazil’s persevering with purchases of Russian oil whereas Russia wages warfare in Ukraine, he mentioned Brazil was one of many first international locations to sentence Russia’s occupation of Ukraine and that “Brazil does not finance Russia, we purchase oil from Russia as a result of we have to purchase oil similar to China, India, the UK or the US wants to purchase oil”.

He mentioned that if the UN was “functioning” then neither the Ukraine warfare nor the Gaza warfare – which he described as “not a warfare” however a “genocide” – would have occurred.

The BBC additionally requested President Lula about November’s COP30 local weather summit, when Brazil will host world leaders within the Amazon metropolis of Belém.

Domestically, the Brazilian president has confronted criticism over his help for exploratory drilling for oil close to the mouth of the Amazon River.

Brazil’s state oil firm Petrobas and different companies have purchased blocks for exploration and are awaiting licenses.

His personal setting minister, Marina Silva, has strongly opposed the plans and a few conservation teams worry it may threat oil spills in waters near the Amazon.

President Lula insisted Brazil was strictly following the regulation in its analysis and if there have been any oil spills then “Brazil could be liable and accountable and deal with any downside”.

He added that he supported a world with out fossil fuels however “this second has not come but”.

“I need to know of any nation that’s ready to have an vitality transition and able to giving up fossil fuels,” he replied. However the challenge has confirmed controversial with left-wing voters.

Lula, who’s 79, mentioned he had not but determined if he would run for re-election within the 2026 presidential elections.

He mentioned that his well being and his social gathering would decide that – in addition to whether or not it was politically opportune and whether or not he stood an opportunity of profitable.

Lula slipped within the polls lately, however obtained a lift after Trump imposed tariffs on Brazil.

He concluded by saying that his legacy included decreasing starvation, reducing unemployment, and the incomes of the working courses rising.